本版告示: 投資涉及風險,包括損失本金。閣下不應僅依賴本論壇資料而作出任何投資決定。投資者應該參閱相關產品的章程以獲得更多細節,包括產品特色和風險因素。投資者考慮是否適合投資任何投資產品時,敬請考慮本身之投資目標及情況。
普通會員
donaldleung0804 (蓮華生輝)
rbenabled
avatar
202.140.78.214
金錢: 674.35
帖數: 512
GP: 5
LV: 23
交易所:
2倍
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
91樓提及
2倍


好發
系統輔導員
qt (新手)
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.182.16
金錢: 6812.03
帖數: 9846
GP: 910
LV: 100
交易所:
http://orientaldaily.on.cc/cnt/finance/20130120/00202_006.html

Caterpillar購年代「中招」撇45億

全球最大建築及採礦設備生產商卡特彼勒(Caterpillar)竟老貓燒鬚,去年收購香港上市公司年代煤礦機電,包括年代旗下子公司鄭州四維機電,至今未夠一年卻發現「中伏」。卡特彼勒上周五市後表示,四維機電(簡稱四維)在會計方面「多年來蓄意串謀失當」,上季須就此撇帳5.8億美元(約45.24億港元),相當於每股盈利87美仙,消息累其股價市後跌1.5%。

每股盈利恐唔見一半

市場料本月廿八日公布上季業績的卡特彼勒每股賺1.7美元,今次非現金商譽減值料令每股盈利縮半。

卡特彼勒稱,已辭退涉及會計失當的四維高層,指他們在收購交易前企圖誇大四維盈利能力,此舉「完全無法接受」,如今四維生產工序已由卡特彼勒老臣子負責的中國業務部門管轄,但內部調查仍繼續。

卡特彼勒去年六月以約50.64億港元,收購年代及其子公司鄭州四維,是次撇帳幾乎撇走當時整宗收購交易價值。
~qt
普通會員
Clark0713
rbenabled
avatar
119.247.193.120
金錢: 5555.99
帖數: 5522
GP: 248
LV: 75
交易所: 10381050.00
呢單野搞到我昨天早上聽到後患得患失,原來上年我將咁大筆錢買入這隻假數股身上。

最後仲要賺到不錯的回報,真是走運。
"The only thing that can defeat power, is more power." ~Clark0713
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
94樓提及
呢單野搞到我昨天早上聽到後患得患失,原來上年我將咁大筆錢買入這隻假數股身上。

最後仲要賺到不錯的回報,真是走運。


Caterpillar傻仔之嘛
普通會員
Clark0713
rbenabled
avatar
119.247.193.120
金錢: 5555.99
帖數: 5522
GP: 248
LV: 75
交易所: 10381050.00
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。
"The only thing that can defeat power, is more power." ~Clark0713
系統輔導員
qt (新手)
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.182.16
金錢: 6812.03
帖數: 9846
GP: 910
LV: 100
交易所:
Caterpillar會唔會告負責做dealD行/會計師?
~qt
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
96樓提及
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。


咁你贏左,有個更大的水魚埋來..你先贏
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
97樓提及
Caterpillar會唔會告負責做dealD行/會計師?


可能會,他已經報告SFC啦
普通會員
Clark0713
rbenabled
avatar
119.247.193.120
金錢: 5555.99
帖數: 5522
GP: 248
LV: 75
交易所: 10381050.00
98樓提及
96樓提及
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。


咁你贏左,有個更大的水魚埋來..你先贏
股票有時真係玩「大傻理論」。
"The only thing that can defeat power, is more power." ~Clark0713
系統輔導員
qt (新手)
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.182.16
金錢: 6812.03
帖數: 9846
GP: 910
LV: 100
交易所:
100樓提及
98樓提及
96樓提及
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。


咁你贏左,有個更大的水魚埋來..你先贏
股票有時真係玩「大傻理論」。


重新研究當時的分析, 決定
~qt
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
100樓提及
98樓提及
96樓提及
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。


咁你贏左,有個更大的水魚埋來..你先贏
股票有時真係玩「大傻理論」。


好多上市都是咁,上市公司通常都是大傻
普通會員
Clark0713
rbenabled
avatar
119.247.193.120
金錢: 5555.99
帖數: 5522
GP: 248
LV: 75
交易所: 10381050.00
現回想起來當時一話全購,竟現仍有10%過外的套利空間,可能當時已有人知這事。
"The only thing that can defeat power, is more power." ~Clark0713
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
103樓提及
現回想起來當時一話全購,竟現仍有10%過外的套利空間,可能當時已有人知這事。


差價咁大可能真是有人查緊驚驚,點知都過左
普通會員
Clark0713
rbenabled
avatar
119.247.193.120
金錢: 5555.99
帖數: 5522
GP: 248
LV: 75
交易所: 10381050.00
104樓提及
103樓提及
現回想起來當時一話全購,竟現仍有10%過外的套利空間,可能當時已有人知這事。


差價咁大可能真是有人查緊驚驚,點知都過左
我當時反而見到獲利空間咁大,反而大注衝入。

年代煤機的獲利支持我之後繼續搏股票,其實它對我近年投資成績係轉捩點。

所以昨天早上看到tvb報導時,tvb無開名,但我知是講緊年代,所以好感觸。

總評分: 5
紀錄: | donaldleung0804: GJ x 5 (同你一模一樣)
"The only thing that can defeat power, is more power." ~Clark0713
普通會員
wilyty
rbenabled
avatar
183.179.22.248
金錢: 10545.00
帖數: 1266
GP: 195
LV: 36
交易所:
96樓提及
咁原來我都係傻仔,呢個先係我不悅的原因,你都知我曾將天文數字(當時的我認鬨)投入此股上。


no, u're not a fool, u're a lucky guy
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
105樓提及
104樓提及
103樓提及
現回想起來當時一話全購,竟現仍有10%過外的套利空間,可能當時已有人知這事。


差價咁大可能真是有人查緊驚驚,點知都過左
我當時反而見到獲利空間咁大,反而大注衝入。

年代煤機的獲利支持我之後繼續搏股票,其實它對我近年投資成績係轉捩點。

所以昨天早上看到tvb報導時,tvb無開名,但我知是講緊年代,所以好感觸。


我當年覺得升左幾倍無博到,盤數又好多水份,無去試呀....

我一起身就聽到新聞就知道應該是他啦...所以至找資料

不過都過左去就算啦
普通會員
david395 (大da)
rbenabled
avatar
223.19.173.178
金錢: 10518.35
帖數: 3670
GP: 2978
LV: 61
交易所:
Caterpillar Punked By Chinese Fraud, To Write Off Half Of Q4 Earnings

  



Fraudulent Chinese corporations are nothing new - we have been warning about them since late 2010, spurring the creation of a cottage industry focused exclusively on unmasking such public reverse merger companies (and generating trading profits along the way). One company, however, which apparently was completely unaware of the now pervasive and proven for the past two years Chinese corporate fraud, is US industrial titan Caterpillar. This was made clear when, after hours on Friday night naturally, the company revealed that it had been misled by "deliberate, multi-year, coordinated accounting misconduct" at a subsidiary of a Chinese company it acquired last summer, leading it to write off most of the value of the deal. In the process it would also take a $580 million, or $0.87 cent charge to earnings, which would wipe out more than half its expected earnings of $1.70 for the fourth quarter of 2012. One wonders, however, is there more to this story than just a case of a gentle, naive board duped by fraudulent, evil, cunning "Chinamen" which may have watched one too many episodes of Autonomy does Hewlett Packard?

Reuters has more details on the Fraud:

  Caterpillar closed the purchase of ERA Mining Machinery Ltd and its subsidiary Siwei, China's fourth-largest maker of hydraulic roof supports, last June, paying HK$5.06 billion, or $653.4 million. ERA had been publicly traded in Hong Kong, doing business through Siwei, which is known for making equipment to support roofs in mines.

  

  A member of the Caterpillar board during the course of the Siwei deal told Reuters the board was distracted at the time by a larger transaction and paid relatively little attention to the Siwei acquisition.

  

  "It came as a complete surprise to us," the former board member said of the fraud, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation. "It was presented to us as a pretty straightforward transaction. It's a shame. It should have been investigated further."

  

  The source said the driving force behind the deal was Ed Rapp, the former Caterpillar chief financial officer who now serves as a group president with responsibility for China, among other operations. The source said it was Rapp who presented the deal to the board and pushed for its completion.

  

  A Caterpillar spokesman declined to comment on Rapp's role in the deal. Rapp could not be immediately located for comment.

  ...

  In a statement, Caterpillar said an ongoing investigation launched after the deal closed "determined several Siwei senior managers engaged in deliberate misconduct beginning several years prior to Caterpillar's acquisition of Siwei."

  

  According to a question-and-answer dialog Caterpillar included in its statement, the company found discrepancies in November between the inventory in Siwei's books and its actual physical inventory, triggering the probe.

  

  The company also said it had replaced several senior managers at Siwei, adding that their conduct was "offensive and completely unacceptable."

So the board was "distracted"? Perhaps, the board was perfectly "tracted" and instead what the board did was pay close attention to what Hewlett-Packard did with Autonomy, where the allegations of fraud are still an open-ended case of he said, she said, and immediately saw an opportunity to use a tiny bolt on acquisition in a country which is the source of its entire marginal growth, as a scapegoat on which to pin everything that was going wrong in China, and maybe the world.

Recall from the Q2 CAT earnings release warning profusely about what is going on in China:

  In China, we are lowering production levels and have started to export machines to other regions of the world. However, the construction industry in China is still weak and our dealers are reducing their inventories of new machines, further reducing our shipments. While our inventory of new machines in China increased, the combination of our finished inventory and dealer machine inventory was about flat with the end of the first quarter of 2012. We are working to lower finished inventory, but given the weak construction equipment industry in China it will be a gradual reduction throughout 2012. We are being appropriately cautious—we intend to lower inventory, but are considering our supply chain and are acting in an orderly manner. In addition, we are trying to balance our actions—the industry in China has been weak over the past year, but can move quickly when it turns around.

  

  As we began 2012, our expectations for sales in China were higher, and we built substantial new machine inventory in the first quarter to support what is usually a seasonally strong quarter. First-quarter sales were lower than expected, and we ended the first quarter with higher inventory in China. We developed and are executing a plan for an orderly reduction of China inventory that includes lower production, merchandising programs to improve sales and the export of machines from China to other parts of the world.

  

  We remain very positive on long-term industry growth in China and our strategy to grow our business there. Our plans for the remainder of 2012 reflect an orderly ramp down of production that considers our entire supply chain in China. Given the current low rate of sales and the production ramp down, it will likely take the rest of 2012 to reduce inventory to appropriate levels.

Subsequently, in Q3 CAT did all it could to telegraph that things in China may finally be improving, so no need to change anything about how business is conducted there:

  From an economic standpoint, we are expecting slightly better world growth in 2013 with modest improvement in the United States, China and most of the developing world, but continuing difficulty in Europe.

  

  "We are taking a pragmatic view of 2013—we're not expecting rapid growth, and we're not predicting a global recession. At this point, we expect 2013 sales will be similar overall to 2012, but with a slightly weaker first half and a slightly better second half. While machine deliveries to end users have continued to hold up, our sales will probably remain relatively weak early in 2013 as dealers are likely to continue reducing inventories. When expected dealer inventory reductions level off, and easing actions by central banks and governments around the world begin to improve economic growth, we expect our business will begin to improve. While there's reason for optimism, and we're not expecting a global recession in 2013, we are prepared and stand ready to take action no matter what happens to the global economy," Oberhelman added.

Betting one's business model on the "easing actions by central bankers" - brilliant. But let's leave that for another day (yet one does wonder: was one of the "actions" the board was "prepared to take" in case of global recession, the release of news of massive fraud at a small Chinese subsidiary, thereby being excused for missing earnings by half?)

Reuters said as much:

  The Siwei deal came as part of Caterpillar's larger ambitions in China. In early 2012, it added Jon Huntsman, the former U.S. ambassador to China, to its board of directors.

  

  The company, which already has 23 manufacturing facilities in China and four more under construction, said the Siwei episode would not change its strategy in the country.

Of course it won't change the strategy: in fact, CAT will welcome the acquisition of futher such EPS-charge off enabling microcaps. After all, all it takes for the company to pull a get out of jail card by missing EPS by half in any given quarter, is for it to blame lax accounting and someone else's fraud for the problem.

Because who is to say what is really going on? Naturally, nobody will trust the Chinese side of the story now. As for CAT: well, let's say operating earnings were so horrible that not even all the GAAP accounting magic in the world could make the company beat earnings estimates. So what does the company do? It takes a "charge" which allows it to mask a whopping one-eighth of its entire full year EPS miss courtesy of a perfectly convenient scapegoat. As for what is really going on behind the scenes - it could be due to Chinese business imploding, or global economic conditions getting so bad the firm just can't find a way to offset the losses, or anything else. Alas, we will never know as the official spian has been released.

But in the meantime, business in China continues as usual of course, now that CAT has reset losses with enough of a buffer to last it one more quarter. And if Chinese growth, and by growth we mean the construction of empty cities and hollow malls, does not pick up, well then - some other "manager" will be thrown under the bus for pushing a "distracted" board to purchase yet another Chinese microcap, whose books everyone is shocked, shocked, to learn were cooked end to end.

We look forward to even more high flying companies whose stock price has been pulled artificially higher due to the relentless ramp in ES by prop desk of primary dealers, to come up with comparable excuses for why earnings will miss. Because if it is not some softward glitch's fault, it is some manager, or some auditor, or some accountant, or some M&A advisor, or some regulator.

Whose fault it never, ever is, is the ever declining global cash flow in a world in which the stock market and the economy have now hopelessly and laughably disconnected.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/20 ... te-half-q4-earnings
2011-2013將會是2008-2010的翻版 ~david395
普通會員
simonwor
rbenabled
avatar
202.140.110.21
金錢: 4799.00
帖數: 1562
GP: 794
LV: 40
交易所: 15761474.53
唔知大家有無睇電影《收購風雲》?
同呢單野一樣。。。。
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance." --- Socrates

"Games are won by players who focus on the playing field-not by those whose eyes are glued to the scoreboard" --- Warren Buffett

"不要想著贏,要想不能輸" --- 《KANO》
  ~simonwor
普通會員
y2kcatman (文昌)
rbenabled
avatar
203.186.130.2
金錢: 127.45
帖數: 194
GP: 335
LV: 14
交易所:
隻股前核數師中瑞岳華。

內地好多呢d地雷,安東尼波頓呢d頂班馬都中招,防不勝防。
普通會員
thomasgp02a
rbenabled
avatar
61.8.254.140
金錢: 535.90
帖數: 1350
GP: 383
LV: 37
交易所:
創業板變身股,核數連信永中和都不是,風險一定大啦。
普通會員
太平天下
rbenabled
avatar
113.255.183.242
金錢: 1021.70
帖數: 1697
GP: 5
LV: 42
交易所:
個老細同國際媒機有關係。一不離二,國際媒機真係唔知都有幾真
系統輔導員
greatsoup
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 231361.66
帖數: 226126
GP: 4202
LV: 476
交易所: 305555.25
112樓提及
個老細同國際媒機有關係。一不離二,國際媒機真係唔知都有幾真


根本就是同一批股東....其實1683個AR....
吹水可以去吹水龍鳳區膠區,睇文去文章區,睇股去股區,有問題去版務區,寫Blog 就開realblog


http://realforum.zkiz.com/viewforum.php?fid=148
~greatsoup
普通會員
太平天下
rbenabled
avatar
113.255.183.242
金錢: 1021.70
帖數: 1697
GP: 5
LV: 42
交易所:
113樓提及
112樓提及
個老細同國際媒機有關係。一不離二,國際媒機真係唔知都有幾真


根本就是同一批股東....其實1683個AR....


同一條計,換個名,可以洗兩次。仲要兩次都引到大公司,小股東ci 毫無損.......勁,直情劫富濟貧 

睇好戲。美國果邊唔知個ibank 會唔會比追究
系統輔導員
greatsoup
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 231361.66
帖數: 226126
GP: 4202
LV: 476
交易所: 305555.25
114樓提及
113樓提及
112樓提及
個老細同國際媒機有關係。一不離二,國際媒機真係唔知都有幾真


根本就是同一批股東....其實1683個AR....


同一條計,換個名,可以洗兩次。仲要兩次都引到大公司,小股東ci 毫無損.......勁,直情劫富濟貧 

睇好戲。美國果邊唔知個ibank 會唔會比追究


大公司要入市場交少少錢好正常....ibank無事的,錢都賺左
吹水可以去吹水龍鳳區膠區,睇文去文章區,睇股去股區,有問題去版務區,寫Blog 就開realblog


http://realforum.zkiz.com/viewforum.php?fid=148
~greatsoup
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/financeestate/art/20130214/18164706



【本報訊】全球最大工程機械製造商Caterpillar上季要為收購已被私有化的年代煤機的內地子公司之會計失誤作5.8億美元撇賬,事件震驚金融圈,市場消息指,近日美國證監會(SEC)已向香港證監會就事件進行溝通,事件或再觸發中港兩地跨境執法的敏感議題,市場人士認為,證監會近年作風強硬,料必跟進事件。 
記者:石永樂

去年Caterpillar斥資近67億元全面收購年代煤機,但集團上月表示,月前在核查年代煤機旗下鄭州四維機電設備的存貨紀錄時,發現實際存貨與會計紀錄出現差異,四維透過有問題的成本入賬,不合理地誇大盈利,以及收入入賬方法均出現問題,更嚴重的是,Caterpillar直指,四維的賬目問題是管理層「故意、持續多年及有計劃」,事件再次引起民企造假的關注,今次的受害者不再是一般散戶,而是一家美國大藍籌。
拖累Caterpillar大撇賬

事後Caterpillar即時上報SEC及知會證監會,市場消息指,兩地監管機構更已就此事作溝通,證監亦積極配合跟進。證監會發言人接受查詢時則表示,不會就個別事件評論。有市場人士認為,由於年代煤機已除牌,目前亦未見有本地投資者的利益受損或投訴,證監會跟進或有難度。
不過信永中和(香港)會計師事務所副管理合伙人盧華基表示,只要在上市期間有違規,即使公司已除牌,證監會都有權追究。
有熟悉監管規例人士指出,證監會近年確在加強「打老虎」的形象,尤其前年民企風暴,證監會確想嚴打民企造假,「呢單嘢可能牽涉美國大藍籌俾民企呃咁大件事,證監會唔理先係新聞!」

在現行制度下,欺詐、造市及內幕交易會交由證監會處理,涉及會計違規及審計不當行為則由財匯局跟進,財務匯報局回應查詢時指,不會就個別報道作出評論,但稱如接獲有關賬目做假的可跟進投訴,會將個案轉介予相關監管機構,以供其考慮是否需要採取跟進行動。
時事財經評論員李兆富認為,今次Caterpillar的事件於舉證上甚有難度,「如果有證據,佢哋一早告咗相關人士啦,估計Caterpillar最終要自己硬食㗎喇。」立法會議員涂謹申則認為,若Caterpillar想求助本港機構,可向商業罪案調查科報案。
中港跨境執法或惹爭議

不過,即使本地一眾的監管機構監想追究亦可能有難度,因為事件的核心公司四維位於鄭州,若牽涉內地管理層,本港的監管機構單方面難以進行調查,因為中國法律是不允許內地的審計機構將工作底稿提供給外國的監管機構。
盧華基表示,目前中港在跨境執法上的合作仍不成熟,即使證實有關人士涉案,「對方唔來港應訊,你亦奈佢唔何。」
看來今次Caterpillar事件,將又再一次引發中國與外地監管機構之間的跨境監管問題。
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
http://hk.apple.nextmedia.com/financeestate/art/20130214/18164710


【表示震驚】
年代煤機前身為年代資訊影視公司,主要從事電影發行業務,直至2010年獲北京美國總商會前主席Emory Williams以注入資產形式借殼入主,變身成煤炭開採設備股,涉及金額約11.64億元,兩年後以67億元的作價將年代售予Caterpillar。
Emory Williams九十年代已開始在內地做生意,在2005及2006年任北京美國總商會主席,2010年,他與李汝波共同將四維注入年代,李汝波順理成為年代的執行董事。
曾任北京美國總商會主席

李氏於八十年代曾任中國煤炭工業部的採擴工程師,九十年代赴美留學後「下海」從商,與Emory Williams一直從事與工業和建築相關業務,二人亦共同創辦已私有化的國際煤機(1683),國際煤機於2011年7月份獲美國採礦設備商久益環球(Joy Global)全購,涉資過百億元。
由於Emory Williams與李汝波都是有頭有面的人,他們對Caterpillar的指控亦相當上心,Emory Williams曾就事件發表聲明形容對事件表示「震驚」,因為交易時年代煤機與Caterpillar的團隊緊密地合作,並進行盡職審查,聲明中又提及,李汝波亦曾接觸Caterpillar要求獲取有關詳情,但未獲任何回應。
據悉,Emory Williams與李汝波認為Caterpillar的指控影響他們聲譽,甚至事業,故不排除在適當時作出反擊。
普通會員
hkgbamboopanda
rbenabled
avatar
183.178.177.54
金錢: 127.95
帖數: 402
GP: 5
LV: 21
交易所:
可能又牽起一埸民企大風波
普通會員
ahtf
avatar
113.253.63.115
金錢: 11.60
帖數: 20
GP: 0
LV: 5
交易所:
我記得臨收購之前, 仲成日有財演吹呢隻野, 但見係創業板野, 所以唔敢買
開頭仲覺得有古惑, 點知佢成間比人買起左
普通會員
greatsoup38
rbenabled
avatar
123.203.72.56
金錢: 153901.05
帖數: 157942
GP: 3287
LV: 398
交易所:
119樓提及
我記得臨收購之前, 仲成日有財演吹呢隻野, 但見係創業板野, 所以唔敢買
開頭仲覺得有古惑, 點知佢成間比人買起左


呃唔到散戶就呃大客
訪客
Guest (IP: 54.224.166.141) avatar
(提示:如要觀看隱藏內容, 按此回到第一頁)
此版不容許訪客發貼, 請先登入。

Home RealBlog Stock Endless Choice Fancy Buzz Gloomy Sunday ZKIZ Wiki RealWidgets

geo stats
Powered by RealForum
Paged in 29.2ms (Q=9 + R=4) @ 2018-9-21 06:45 PM Asia/Hong_Kong
Archiver | 廣告聯繫: abbychau (at) gmail.com